police luger markings

The cut-back, first conversion feature of the subject police holster involved forming a regular curved, P.08 holster style, closed, stitched toe. If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. The kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal. The weirdest part is the stamp on the inside back panel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It is curious that the subject converted LP.08 holster, however, lacks the horizontal stitch line that secures the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner found on all observed artillery LP.08 holsters, original and converted. Mauser or the Police HQ in Berlin? S.B.S.I 1.7 - item 7 in the 1st Centuria within command I of the South Wissen ist Macht, das gilt fr jeden, der im ffentlichen Leben steht und vorwrstsstrebt, besonders aber fr die Polizeibeamten, da ihn sein Beruf tglich und stundlich in engste Berhrung mit der Bevlterung bringt. The first toggle link is marked with the Mauser Commercial Banner Code. LUGER POLICE P-08 MAGAZINE. Das gibt ihm den inneren halt, das ruhige Uustreten in der Dessentlichteit, den sicheren Erfolg und damit eine gesteigerte Dienstfreudigteit und Liebe zum Berufe. Mge auch die zweite Uuslage jedem Polizeibeamten weiterhin ein gutter Fhrer auf dem schwierigen Gebiete des polizeilichen Missens sein. No tool pouch. The reworking ends in May 1921. Pictured are two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle and multiple views of the subject Police holster, being view 1, view 2, view 3 and view 4. What unit markings are on the pistol? Eagle/L proofed aluminum bottom magazine is not. Maybe it was a rework from the 20's or 30's. Helping Police). Sturgess additionally describes the police cleaning rod in the Fig. Over all good condition. Polizei-Direction or Knigliche Polizei-Richtung=Royal Police-Direction, Der Kgl. (A fairly common occurrence.) stamping, there is enough room to the left of the defined and enhanced rectangular cartouche type enclosed S. H.133. The tube is in excellent condition with most . It has no maker mark nor datePresumably a commercial. issued to a unit; e.g., the 351st P08 pistol issued to the Schutzpolizei On the back, between the belt loops is a Nazi Eagle, short wingsAlmost Police looking but cannot be as it is a WaAThe # appears to be JL16. I am interested in the following symbols on the bottom side of the magazine, too. Mfg Part Number. unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. These figure on the Mauser inventory listings of 09/30/1930 and 09/30/1930. influence of its police during the violence and disorder of the Weimar S.B.13.435 - Berlin unit 13 - Pistole s/n 9140e. Pictured is a brown leather 1939 dated Kern Klager & Cie Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. links[4]='http://www.theoldbrigade.co.uk'; This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. PREUEN marked eagle, round belt buckle, gold or silver, has been identified. This is exactly what I believe happened to this holster. The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols book publications picture and describe cut-back artillery Luger holsters as specifically modified for police Luger carry, there are no Luger book published, period pictures of German Police with a cut-back artillery Luger holster, nor with any standard, non-police P.08 type Luger holster. The S.E.I. 7: 505: . similar restriction. an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster, an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group, Weimar photos that shows groups of NCO Police with a mix of ordinary belt buckles and rectangular box style Weimar Prussian eagles. Post WW2 police manual, dated 1946, is titled The Police Pistols, Dresden, part of the Soviet Occupation Zone, identified of the cover as part of the State of Saxony. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. WaA107 Schnellpressenfabrik Heidelberg 1939 a.k.a. Even though considerably outnumbered, the Riff inflicted nearly six times the number of casualties on the Spanish and French than they suffered. Mike, i don't think Joop is doing that? The reassignment of 9754r to the Weimar navy explains the removal of the Sear Safety and the Magazine Safety. J. Pictured is a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel. Based on the wooden box style of the two examples, and the identical text font size and styles, that there are more of these cleaning kits with identical contents and that they are all, most likely made by the same German manufacturer. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. A remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels? I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. Pictured is a 1943 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN police holster with a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. Since the first edition was published in February d. Zs. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. 19-130 text caption: A post-WW1 new manufactured police issue cleaning rod with soft-soldered stop for use with the Mndungsschoner for the P.08.These were issued to the police on a scale of one per pistol.Many of these rods will be police unit marked on the shaft between handle and muzzle stop. Sticky: Book Review History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings. an order of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior dated April 15, 1919, to In Berlin, the German Police screwed the barrels out and replaced them with 9 mm barrels. For more detailed information on the 1949 Police manual. Pictured above are two books, Band I or Volume I 2. Im Strasrecht haben ebensalls injngster Zeit z. L. erhebliche Umwlzungen stattgesunden. The A good example of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson lugers, they have been shown to be incorrect and wrong. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Still. The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet made by CARL EICKHORN SOLINGEN, It is pictured again as part of a grouping consisting of a period 1937 dated Police manual titled: 1937 PDV 3 Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster and a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. Chapter 4 3rd Reich Police Lugers Chapter 5 DDR Deutsche Volkspolizei (People's Police) Lugers a complete catalog of Police Luger Markings The book has . Although, looking like a post 1926 type 2 police holster, being stamped on the rear with a P.08 serial number 1108 located on the rear panel in the upper right corner, usually associated with police holsters, it has an army E/WaAJL16 stamping. 33. back-side attached single, horizontal leather stock block strip and removing the center block. pistols were rejected at the acceptance procedure it would explain that these were replaced with some pistols in the v block. The only known publication that mentions the E/WaAJL16 stamping is found in World of Lugers, a.k.a. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks and discussed in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333. These bayonets also originally had a Prussian Eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip. This is a Luger P08 without Nazi markings! Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 Police and Military Lugers 32. A rare DWM Model 1900 U.S. Army Test Eagle Luger in 7.65mm is up for grabs as well. Additionally, based on (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. Regarding the use of the police cleaning rod in the field it can be used without the barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector. The 2008 discussions were all over the map with collectors stating that the WOL Costanzo comments were incorrect, disputing the WaAJL16 stamp as incorrectly interpreted by Costanzo as being WaAJt16. (BSP) (Railway Protection Police) as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap being BAHN SCHUTZ and RBD/Rbd (ReichsBahnDirektionen) ESSEN (RUHR). Is wird daher fr alle Polizeibeamten, die mit dem Inhalt des Buches vertraut sind, ein leichtes sein, sich auch in der vorliegenden Reubearbeitung ohne Schwierigteit zurechtzusinden. the same style holster pictured with a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319. is an identical holster in the collection, 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859. separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. regulations issued in 1920, and are shown in the following table. August Weiss confirms that these pistols were sold by Mauser to the German Police; this solves my problem. . To the best of our knowledge, all the examples shown are original pre-1945 manufacture. Other than the most notable features of the cut-back artillery holsters is the toe plug and the cleaning rod sleeve of these former artillery Luger holsters, none are the same, as there are other changes, such as method of carry, where Sturgess in TBLAP suggests, that with the lack of belt loops they were carried over the shoulder, somehow utilizing the rear attached leather stock block, although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the Potsdam=Eiche, im Juni 1921. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example, not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded, 4mm; excellent bore, 5'' barrel insert for Luger pistols chambered in .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), two known examples of a muzzle protector used by the Wehrmacht or German army. Faint illegible ink stamp inside the flap (Zeitz?). In actuality, both above statements are correct, as the first statement that a majority of the cut-back LP.08 holsters used by the police are without a police cleaning rod is accurate, however, in cannot be denied that some, at least one, in this instance, was modified (unsuccessfully), specifically to carry the police cleaning rod as evidenced the very rare subject example. Genuine German Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered. Additionally, this holster was used extensively as evidenced by its less than pristine condition, possibly being carried in the late days of the war in the defense of Berlin. This example has all matching serial numbers. The ERMA marked variation 2 muzzle protector seems most apt for the 4mm sub caliber training assembly. RIA has no less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns. This was removed and the hilt was shortened accordingly. a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. Weapon no. 46 of these got executed in the years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the Danish police. Pictured are view 1 and view 2 of this unusual marked police holster. The Ingolstadt HZa was the only one to have a production code, I believe it was "jlj." This was forbidden by the Treaty of The E/WaAJL16 is, by all accounts to date, similar to, or a variation of, the acceptance stamp for Factory Guard/Werkschutz issue. During the Weimar Era, German police power remained decentralized. they are found. Allenstein district. But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. I own a u suffix luger with a blank toggle. Pictured are three views of a fine example holster; view 1, view 2, view 3. In the example 2 conversion, to a complete P.08 style holster, the rear, horizontal leather stock block was removed and twin belt loops were added, curiously, one wider than the other, which may be a later repair replacement. Collectors state the following regarding the WwMg/41 marking: Opinion on these stamps has differed over the years, but current thought is that the marks may be attributed to the waffenwerk depot at Magdeburg. new style of police holster was introduced without a holster spine attached cleaning rod sleeve, replacing it with a spare magazine pouch. officially discontinued. Description. Additionally, pictured below are pages 94 and 95 of WOL showing an early supply poof E/HZa.JL.16, two army equipment depot proofs E/HZA.J.L.3 and HZA.JL.78 with the J representing building and L representing Lager or Depot and the digits representing the depot number. When identified, either gold or silver, some dated and maker marked, these Prussian State Police belt buckles are described as officer belt buckles and this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. 19-216). On later production guns, matching numbered magazines enhance value. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster, the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked, the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner, Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s. Ulle diese Reuregelungen sind bei der Bearbeitung der zweiten Uuslage berudschtigt worden und haben in einigen Ubschnitten umsangreiche Uenderungen notwendig gemacht. another cut-back Artillery to Police holster, An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size, of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. The two-piece assembly can also be RARE W.W.II GERMAN POLICE LUGER MAUSER HOLSTER - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN. 12 - item 12 of the first centuria within command II in the By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp. It is described as "Berlin Police Armory Acceptance Stamp. Nevertheless, cut-back artillery Luger holsters are inexplicably associated with the new police cleaning rods and appears self-evident that possibly, some of the new design police cleaning rods with brass stops were carried in the attached cleaning rod pouches of the converted LP.08 artillery to police holsters, and they also could be found in police stations. By the 19th century, disputes over the use of Fraktur or Antigua typeface became more heated and lasted until the middle of the 20th century. the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. Normally, as stated above, these cut-back artillery holsters utilized a toe plug, in this case the subject holster is about of an inch longer, allowing the leather smith enough materiel to fold over the toe opening, mostly conforming to the 1929 and later police holsters. out and what appears to be a Nazi issue number 522 added to the scabbard metal throat and bayonet handle cross-bar. Polizei-Praesident Berlin=The Royal Police-President Berlin. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Gustav Reinhardt Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L. Sch.137. (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung This gives him the inner support, the calm appearance in the deficiency, the sure success and thus an increased enthusiasm and love for the profession. Opening the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008. fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. links[1]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; WWI). the transcription. when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. links[8]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; Der Mangel an einschlgigen Fachbchern ift oft betlagt worden. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. Many of its members (for example The only marking is the Akah company logo on the back side, between the belt loops. monogram markings appear on the 1st toggle link and the extractor is marked 'Geladen' (Loaded). Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, violations of the Treaty of Versailles by the German police. Clearly identified on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass stud and leather slit cover flap. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on HIPO was organized under - and quite similar to -the Gestapo: Some uniformed to be visible, some civil dressed working in secrecy. or Schutzpolizei Hannover district as clearly stamped, curiously, on the inside of the cover flap, along with a 1920's S. H. 133. marking and in Berlin as indicated by the S.B. The die application was quite sloppy in some areas, an example being the loading tool pouch located inside the cover flap where the black die was applied with the cover flap closed. Pictured for comparison are examples 1 and 2. is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation. Lot 0478, Jan 14, 2023. What magazine variation is proper for your Luger P.08? Caliber 7.62mm - 6.5" barrel. jeb111. Made by Mauser in 1936 for German Army. The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. A rank of 1,000,000 means the last copy sold approximately a month ago. 1014 stamping is believed to be for Schutzpolizei Erfurt, however, the I. of S.E.I. DWM Luger Identification Guide. This is notwithstanding the fact that there were obviously less Weimar Era Police officers than NCO Police personnel. the Abtlg. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. Signed & Numbered by both authors. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help On the rear cover the books contents are further described as: official guide for Prussian police officers. regulations issued in 1930, and are shown in the following table. 2: 1,223: DWM unit marked. (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. But you must recognize that; being a researcher yourself! Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. Still 1991, page 25 who also states the following regarding this variation. (he Americans actually did the same thing as most American Regiments did not have a "I" Company, but skipped from "H" Company to "J" Company) Constanzo got this one completely wrong, and the marking is definitely from the late '30's not '20s, and please disregard nonsense about the building # assignments. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade, whereas with the original blade length, the fuller would have stopped well before the tip. My reference book (The Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis, page 103) shows the eagle with PTV over it. SOLD - 1921 DWM Luger - Police Rework $1,950.00 Availability: Out of stock SKU 89661 - 15966 Next/Previous Description 6/4/21 - This is a nice example of a rare 1921-dated DWM Luger. Regimental markings on a 1916 P08 Luger - Arms and other weapons - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum. Additionally, it seems incongruous that a 1920s post WW1 manufacture brass stud was added or replaced when clearly period correct brass studs were available as attested by the added brass stud, while the apparent goal was to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and cover flap to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the lower replaced brass stud would clearly interfere with the insertion of a Police cleaning rod. HIPO as well as Gestapo had their informers. - Kommando Wuertzburg, Kraftfahr-Sonderabteilung, These discussions have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of. Ordnance Department in August 1901 for troop trials with the U.S. Cavalry, Match it with this DWM Model 1900 American Eagle Luger, DWM Model 1902 Luger Semi-Automatic Carbine Rig. All of this is conjecture of course but it stands up to close inspection. The TBLAP kit was made for rifles and pistols, whereas the subject kit was specifically made for pistols as indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. 355. 18: . As always, I'm not responsible for any inaccuracies in the data, just for They sure set off a display real nice. by Igorak89 07 May 2016, 13:15, Post the ministry's Official Directory provides clear, concise and easy-to-understand information to the police officers about their own rights and duties and how they are to deal with the daily demands of the service. According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. It is interesting to note that this is the only published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster so marked. police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men. Mauser Sneak Police. Bavarian State Police (Landespolizei), 1930. Das geistige Rstzeug fr seine Umtsausbung muss er so vllig besitzen, das ser jederzeit das Rechte trifft. It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. However, in 1941, Fraktur was banned in a Schrifterlass (edict on script) signed by Martin Bormann as so-called Schwabacher Judenlettern ("Schwabacher Jewish letters"). Please help me with identifying those markings. These considerations must form the basis for the training of the police officer. It was presidents were stamped like the police schools, but with an "L" instead The bayonets are interesting, as most were produced during the 1920s during the Weimar period. Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 2 ----------------------------------------------------------. To see other police manual examples, such as full pagination and other details, click here. by Poot 06 May 2016, 07:54, Post As a matter of note the police cleaning rod could be used without the barrel attached muzzle protector. Brown would be rural. According to the Standard Catalog of Luger by Davis the meaning of this marking is unknown. Even though the unidentified holster has been modified to fit a P.08, it is suggested by collectors that the Railway Protection Police mostly used non-Luger pistols. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. This is particularly believable as this holster was not for a primary combat activity. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. by Igorak89 09 May 2016, 18:58, Post 11-17-2022 12:57 PM by Pistol. The device was manufactured by ERMA and is police E/B marked. 413 or Landjgerei Gumbinnen; view 1 and view 2. droop-wing eagle over WaA107 army inspection stamp located on the right side flat. 19-130. ad[8]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; As an example, a major Luger dealer, who occasionally offers Nickle plated (1900-1908) or tin plated (1908-1945). The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. Pictured is a variation 1, spring loaded muzzle protector, which is the only one of two known examples of a muzzle protector used by the Wehrmacht or German army as indicated by the droop-wing eagle over WaA107 army inspection stamp located on the right side flat. 4. Command of maintenance/supply section, Wirtschaftsamt Please report any errors to me. There is no Police tool in the holster. Pictured below are several Police Training and Instruction manuals dating from 1921 through 1949. Although, common to both cut-back Artillery holsters featured herein, as originally made, was the inability to close the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap over a fully inserted Police cleaning rod without modifications, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud on the subject example 1 unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location to the example 2, 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap.

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